2010 March 12 & 13: MN Stillwater: COMMENTS on OWBs banned after neighbor complaints

 
2010 March 12 & 13: MN Stillwater: COMMENTS on OWBs banned after neighbor complaints
 
Saturday Mar 13
The manufacturer probably does not advise potential buyers that "Use of our product will result in a thick haze of smoke throughout your immediate neighborhood."  Since smoke indicates incomplete combustion, one may wonder just how efficient this device really is if there is such a large quantity of smoke.

Had he contacted his neighbors, who also would have had no knowledge of the amount of smoke they were about to receive — they probably would have told him to go ahead.

It sounds to me like the REAL problem here is a rather inefficient boiler that incompletely burns its fuel. 

 
 Friday Mar 12
Turk wrote:
Life would be better if government didn’t exist.
 
Really? Life would be better if government didn’t exist?

Ask the good people of Mogadishu how that’s been working out for them.

 
 Saturday Mar 13
Ro Bud wrote:
<quoted text>
While I have sympathy for people with asthma, I don’t believe this has anything to do with that. Depending on the level of severity people with asthma can walk out the door on a nice sunny day and have an attack. This is just a bunch of politically correct whiners complaining about something they have no control over. It’s easier for those people to blame their problems on someone else.

People can also develop asthma with time and exposure to enough pollutants. Its a major problem worldwide right now (I am adamantly opposed to "cap and trade" and all the other fleecing trying to be imposed, for the record!)

The city is totally at fault here, and needs to forgo the legal expenses and use the money toward restitution for this homeowner (as misguided as his math and logic may be.)

I have a neighbor who is no less than about 30 feet from my suburban home who did a similar thing and decided he would heat his home with a fireplace woodburning "insert." The smoke and pollutants are so thick, our eyes water constantly, we sneeze, we get asthma. There was once a time and place for wood burning, and that time was when people had ACREAGE. When your actions immediately and negatively affect your neighbors, it is a sad statement about what regard you hold your neighbors in if you choose to smoke them out to "save a few bucks." We’ve lived here for over 24 years, but one person can come along and choose to make life literally unlivable for people with their decisions.

Again, I HATE the nanny state, but this is one activity which goes beyond inviting ourselves into our neighbors’ living rooms. When their smoke is coming into ours, it is no long happening in their home.

Our neighbors, who fancy themselves as "good, church-going Christians" now demand money for their heating bill each month from us so that they don’t burn their wood. They are holding us hostage in our own home, and the city and EPA won’t lift a finger to help us. How is Stillwater so different? I guess our city is more concerned about WILD TURKEYS!! Saturday Mar 13

I am a mother who’s children are thankfully grown and not living here. I am speaking for the children in this neighborhood. This is an extremely tolerant neighborhood, filled with hard working families. I can count at least 14 children who live within a block of this burner. It is very difficult to protect yourself from the deluge of smoke being produced by this burner. If anyone lived on this block this winter, they would clearly see that this is a serious health hazard. A very kind neighbor even offered to pay his heating bills if he would stop and this fellow told him to "F*#*" off. I support the city council’s help in protecting the children of this city and I hope that anyone would stop to think, before they spend money on a project, about the children near them and how it might affect them.
 
Saturday Mar 13I only have one comment about your article you written above…… I feel you were trying to draw sympathy for the gentleman in the article as he is the victim.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who was victimized by a neighbor’s smoke from an OWB my government leaders chose his side and ultimately my wife and I were forced to move from our residence. All of this by the nice young age of 27.

I just wish you gave the perspective of the alleged victims of the smoke.

As you may or may not know everybody is entitled to the "quiet enjoyment" of their property which has been upheld many times throughout history dating back to the turn of last century. The gentleman in the article doesn’t own the air and doesn’t have the right to inflict his pollution on his neighbors period. The city did what was right, because or federal government refuses to do anything about it.

In other words, I think it is a stretch claiming someone is "saving money" because they lost their job with their own admission stating they spent $15,000 on and OWB. Now I know most people don’t have $15,000 to spend especially if they don’t have a job. The problem is this as quoted by the U.S. EPA: "Current outdoor wood-fired heaters are substantially less efficient and more polluting than other home-heating devices." That pretty much sums it up. An OWB creates on average 72 g/hr of pm 2.5 particulate matter as compared to other forms of heating (even with wood) of: OWB = 72 g/hr Conventional Wood Stove = 18 g/hr EPA Certified Stove = 6 g/hr Oil Furnace = 0.07 g/hr Gas Furnace = 0.04 g/hr Secondly, these DON’T I repeat DON’T save a person money. These cost around at minimum $10,000-$15,000 to purchase and install before you even throw your first log on the fire. So when someone claims "I can’t afford my bills" well they sure could afford $10,000 to buy one of these monstrosities. I know I don’t have $10,000 to throw down on anything much less, something like this. Also take into consideration the $2,000 -$5,000 in installation costs that are associated with this. You can easily spend $15,000 before the so-called savings even start. So don’t believe the "I’m so poor I can’t heat my home" argument because it is all bogus. The other thing to mention is that these things consume and use electricity about 3 times as much as a normal furnace. Electricity bills nearly triple when using these. So spend $150 a month on electric instead of that price on gas? So in closing would you want this across from your home? Probably not……

 
Friday Mar 12
"I’d be happy with $15,000 to cover the time, materials, effort and what it’s going to take to get it out,"
I have to wonder if that $15,000 wouldn’t have been better spent on more insulation and better windows.$250 a month heating seems REALLY high to me and my house was bad until I spent $1,000 for insulation and windows.
 
Friday Mar 12
 

Thank you…but I do understand the operation of a boiler system. My point was if he goes to this measure for his heating bill…what will he do if his water bill gets too high? Dig a well?

 

Friday Mar 12

$8,000, and then the need to purchase wood too? That might have purchased a new energey efficient furnace, A/C, and maybe a water heater/windows or insulation. While I don’t necessarily agree with how the city is handling this…I really feel sorry for the neighbors who have to live next to this guy. 

 
Friday Mar 12
 

I love the way he hides behind his unemployment so he can put his neighbors through this. He should just do what they do in the St Paul and Mpls ghettos, just don’t pay the heat bill and move on April 15th when they shut if off.

 

Friday Mar 12

I call them smudge pots.

 

The problem is this as quoted by the U.S. EPA: "Current outdoor wood-fired heaters are substantially less efficient and more polluting than other home-heating devices." That pretty much sums it up. An OWB creates on average 72 g/hr of pm 2.5 particulate matter as compared to other forms of heating (even with wood) of: OWB = 72 g/hr Conventional Wood Stove = 18 g/hr EPA Certified Stove = 6 g/hr Oil Furnace = 0.07 g/hr Gas Furnace = 0.04 g/hr Secondly, these DON’T I repeat DON’T save a person money. These cost around at minimum $10,000-$15,000 to purchase and install before you even throw your first log on the fire. So when someone claims "I can’t afford my bills" well they sure could afford $10,000 to buy one of these monstrosities. I know I don’t have $10,000 to throw down on anything much less, something like this. Also take into consideration the $2,000 -$5,000 in installation costs that are associated with this. You can easily spend $15,000 before the so-called savings even start. So don’t believe the "I’m so poor I can’t heat my home" argument because it is all bogus. The other thing to mention is that these things consume and use electricity about 3 times as much as a normal furnace. Electricity bills nearly triple when using these. So spend $150 a month on electric instead of that price on gas? So in closing would you want this across from your home? Probably not……

 

Friday Mar 12

 

 Marc wrote:

Man spends $8,000 on outside wood burning heater to save $200 per month on heating bill. Story says he saved $1,000 in first winter. How?$8,000 divided by $200 is 40 months to breakeven. Something is wrong here…
I was thinking the exact same thing? How did this save him any money? Am I missing something here?
As far as the people on here stating "ban fire places and outside fires while you’re at it", that’s not the point here. Chimney’s push the smoke up, not into other peoples homes. And outdoor fires are not constant!
I wouldnt want this smoke and burning smell bellowing into my house everyday either. I dont blame the neighbors for complaining.
 
Friday Mar 12
 

Yeah, go live in the country if you want to heat with wood. What a moron.  

 
Friday Mar 12
 

What about people with asthma and other breathing disorders? Are they going to have to just shut up and die so this guy can have the right to use his boiler? If none of you have asthma, you have no right to criticize this. But other people with chronic lung conditions have the right to breathe.

 
Friday Mar 12
 

Hmmm…if your out of work and your heating bill is $250…how about starting with turning down the thermostat? A Snuggie is only $19.99, heck…those magic electric heaters only cost pennies to run and cost $399. Starting with an $8000 wood burner might not have been the smartest thing. I’d hate to see what he does if his water bill gets too high!

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